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From Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum
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::::: I find it unlikely that the BR are the missing legion. The way that the storylines have gone, it is definitely set that they are a Later Founding legion. Apparently they've been avoiding the Black Legion due to some horrific truth of their past. My current theory (one of many...I thought of this one about half an hour ago as I was walking out of the bathroom) is that their geneseed and heritage comes from all the surviving loyalist elements of the traitor legions. In current 40k fluff and mindset of the *cough cough* Inquisition, they would probably be condemned, excommunicated, and "Soul Drinker"ed. Perhaps Garviel Loken or someone else from the loyalist Luna Wolves is accountable? The problem with my theory (I'll shoot at myself, thank you very much) is that it doesn't account for the high number of psykers (although I could stretch and say that there a few loyal Thousand Sons that ended up spawning a whole horde of them). However, this doesn't support where Chaos Rising is going, what with a past with the Black Legion UNLESS it has something to do with the fact that the Black Legion ''knows'' that they're traitor descendants. [[User:Leonnatus|Abaddon plays Starcraft...we all know that.]] 00:17, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
::::::I agree with leonnatus. In the Horus Heresy Books it is never conclusivly said that Loken or Saul die. And for that matter the about chapter sized resistance left in the palace. Of course some died in the orbital bombardment in the end of book 3. It never says what happened to the to the Emperors Children dreadnought of whom the nme escapes me. It is alsonot conclusivly said what happens to Captain Garro. It is suggested that he beggins the grey knights but on that note he was not declared excommunicate tratoris. So it is possible that the other loyalist elements of the traitor legions were given something similar, perhaps a chapter of their own or a place in the grey knights. Food for thought.[[User:sulenreaper]] 00:18, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
== Number ==
Technically, aren't there 21, Alpharius and Omegon (the twin Primarchs of Alpha Legion), although 20 capsules or fetuses or whatever.
Also, just felt like adding my two cents in for the "Blood Ravens are sooo cool they MUST be a founding legion" arguement. First, pretty much everything about them is based on that one concept, they were invented by the game company, instead of picking a cool one already out there, and to make up for the years of coolness behind Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, or even Ultramarines (although personally I detest the blue marines) they had to do something for their new one. This something is make them uber mysterious, which also makes up for the designers not actually knowing that much about the game. The same designers that have portrayed Alpha Legion, the Legion that, based on various accounts accounts either turned traitor while DESPISING Chaos to prove they were better than the first 19 Legions, or turned traitor to serve the Emperor from the inside, as Khorne worshipping berserkers out for Daemonhood. This is not even considering that most sources not actually involved with the actual creators, even ones written by people very familiar with the universe such as William King, commonly are not canonical and are inaccurate (for instance Lee Lightner stated that "No one knows where the ancient hatred from the Dark Angels and Space Wolves eminated", even though it's pretty well known, at least since I got my 3rd edition Dark Angel Codex, and Space Wolf Codex, well before Sons of Fenris was published. In my current run at reading through the novels I can think of two similar errors in the novels).
So, to summarize that horrible paragraph, Dawn of War is hardly canon, infact it is not canon. True canon, the Index Astartes, suggests that it is only about 4 or 5 thousand years old, as it says "the majority of the records of the chapter date no further back than M37, though references...for centuries before this". The Index further states that they in their infancy they fought against a mysterious insurgency sparked by Alpha Legion in the Gothic Sector (which is the completely wrong Segmentum, and after the Heresy they moved "east", again, wrong Segmentum). Personally, I think they were founded by the Alpha Legion, they are a cheap rip off of the Alpha Legion after all.
